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Life, Theology & Discipleship with Wes Woodell

Wes, You were put in a tremendously awkward position there. I …

Comment on A Tremendously Blown Opportunity to Work with Francis Chan by mattdabbs.

Wes,

You were put in a tremendously awkward position there. I mean no disrespect to the elders who came to that conclusion but it sounds like fear, isolation and sectarianism won the day.

It is easier to spot looking back. It is easier to say what you should have done looking back but right there in the middle of it, it is very hard to see and hard to know what to do with. In the end, Francis Chan got used somewhere and you got used somewhere…who says the two have to go together to be pleasing to God? In fact, you guys are working together in kingdom work so don’t sweat it.

Thanks for sharing this.

Recent Comments by mattdabbs

David Platt: ‘What is a Biblical Response to the Gospel?’ Answer: Calvinism?
“Calvinists believe being baptized for the forgiveness of your sins and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit is wrong for the same reason they believe praying a prayer as part of the salvific process is wrong. To them, salvation for an individual is a completely passive process”

In the NT baptism is used in the passive voice nearly 100% of the time. That is why it is translated “be baptized” because it is something done to us. It is not done in the active voice, “Baptize yourself”. That, to me, is why I can hold the Ephesians verse about being saved by grace through faith, not by works side by side with the command to “be baptized” and not flinch. It all fits.


Why ‘Accepting Jesus into Your Heart’ is Superstitious & Unbiblical, and How Believer’s Baptism Can Be Equally So
Let me explain a bit more, just the basics. The NPP says that in the Law people were “in” based on identifying markers of Judaism which included circumcision, dietary laws, sabbath and holy days. What kept you in were the laws and conventions put in place by the Law (namely sacrifice for forgiveness of sins). We have typically viewed the whole law as what get you and keeps you in and as a system of works righteousness. The NPP would say it was not that at all. Hope that helps.


Why ‘Accepting Jesus into Your Heart’ is Superstitious & Unbiblical, and How Believer’s Baptism Can Be Equally So
Depends on your view of the New Perspective on Paul (E.P. Sanders, Dunn, etc) who say the Mosaic law was not really a system of works righteousness like we have seen it in the past. Rather, that view came from reading Luther back into the Law. You can read up on covenantal nomism if you want more on that. That might inform your thoughts on that topic.


Why ‘Accepting Jesus into Your Heart’ is Superstitious & Unbiblical, and How Believer’s Baptism Can Be Equally So
Thanks Wes. Did you read Joey’s comment on my post? He said,

“The “believer’s prayer” is part of the individualization of the Gospel that has happened in the West. “Come into MY heart” rather than, by baptism, entering into HIS Story.” You reflected some of that sentiment in your post and I think it is right on track. The problem with everything, even perfectly good and biblical things is that people are involved in the process so we are likely to mess up even the most simple of things. I am so thankful that God is full of grace. Last, we need to stop talking about baptism as if it was a work. I don’t wonder at all why various groups think we believe we are saved by works because, honestly, we have talked like we are for many years. It is time we get it straight and reflect in our teaching a biblical view of baptism as a submissive and grace-filled act where God is the one who does the saving, not me twisting God’s arm by checking all the right boxes. That doesn’t mean baptism is unimportant. It does mean it needs to be properly understood.


Private: For Church Leaders: Helping your local congregation become evangelistically focused
Great stuff, posted a link to it over at K.L. God bless,

Matt


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